zfarooq

Yes, Nokia has higher gross profit margins in the industry. That is accurate because of their economies of scale and efficient distribution channels, however, their profit margins in Smartphones e.g. N series, E series, are MUCH higher than on the lower end models.

My point being, they always make a lot of money in terms of margin from their high end, which is extremely important and is the only market expected to grow in the mobile industry this year. Their low end, they are more or less the best.

zfarooq

Have you guys been following the "pass the parcel" game by nokia conversations? It may be a new device they have abt 10 clues last one being its S60.

quagmire

Yeah, i'm guessing, well more like hoping it is the new e77 touchscreen that eldar mentioned. He did say by the time the 3rd iphone was launched that the new e77 would kill it.

zfarooq

I really do hope so, well we at least know its not Maemo as we had hoped.

Lets see..Hope nokia hurries u with something impressive they have had a lot of time, Palm Pre's WebOS started in 2007 when Jon Rubenstein (from Apple) joined and they've done impressively well in this time. He was actually annnounced as CEO as Palm today.

Ruhul

Is nokia trying to give up cell phone business and become an OS company?

Eurico

No they want to be laptop company!

difenbaker

up to certain point - I think they really should.

everything nowadays depends very highly on a phone's software... Apple started this trend, and now every other brand out there is caught up in it.

it has gotten to that point where a phone's success, the make-or-break point, is determined by the OS and the apps. Music, camera, connectivity, maybe still has some importance... but they're all 'yesterdays news'.


cheers!

__________________
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FastLaneJB

I'd say it's just the transisition from phones being dumb devices (With a lot of features of course) to true portable computers. Funnily it seems like it was Nokia who advertised this with the N95 "What computers have become" before the iPhone was launched. It's a new age for the phone and we won't be going back to the old days anymore.

You can modify S60, you can add new features to it, you could tweak the UI even but ultimately it's not suited to compete with the newer mobile OS's. Hence why they do need to move to a new platform which the rumours suggest they will be doing.

chlettn

An "RM504" passed the FCC a while ago...maybe the rumored 5530?

http://tabletblog.com/2009/06/ljprm-...his-space.html

Awesome_Aleks

Is the Nokia Conversations Pass the Parcel going to end with an announcement?

http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/06/11/day-11/

New Homescreen? With all the other clues this could be a 5530 XpressMusic or 5900 XpressMusic

It would be about time for a new touchscreen announcement from Nokia.

If it's not a new announcement then it's the N97

tkno

a guess or a fact? if fact, would you care to substantiate your claim? some higher end models are certain to be profit machines, eg, n95, others not, eg n93 was probably disappointing in that regard. it's hit or miss game, especially for manufacturers who don't have the capability to diversify their product portfolio (see eg the icy reception of "new" iphone).

obviously the product lines nokia have are important for them in terms of profit or at least have a potential of being so. they're pretty good in trimming operations they don't consider adding value.

i'd wouldn't equal smart phones and high end, they're not the same thing. it's smart phone segment that seems to be growing in the us currently. largely because smart phones are all the time less "high end" and more mainstream.

i haven't seen analysis that would indicate "high end" (in monetary terms) being a particular growth area. on the contrary, most estimates still see growth mainly in the cheaper models.

chilko

"Nokia is definitely expected to step into the smartbook segment soon – a move which will push more handset vendors to climb on smartbook bandwagon, said the sources."

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20090611PD206.html

NokiaPort.de

Type RM-504 is definitely Nokia 5530c XpressMusic. It is not called 5900!

Got it on a cached page within nokia official website. In the meantime the model has been removed from the website. See Screenshot

Br

zfarooq

TKNO let me rephrase then. What I was referring to were the High end phone as opposed to the lower end phones.

Worldwide its the SMARTPHONES that will grow 6-10% this year, while mobile sale phones as a whole will fall in 2009 as predicted. You can look this up anywhere.

Like I mentioned earlier, their profit margins are extremely high on their high end as opposed to their low end (given price + competition), esp in developing countries like India and China where they have crazy demand for their N series/E series phone and is expected to grow. They make a hell of a lot of profits of that and that has decreased which is what has impacted them. But their low end remains strong, allowing them to retain their market share.

I read a few articles on this, I'll post em when I find them again.

Viipottaja

That Nokia Conversations viral marketing thing is very clever!

Bluetooth, memory card, data, Wifi, web, camera, video player, music player, stereo speakers, S60 .. boring.. new homescreen - getting more interesting! Hope its not just the 5530 though.

ps. Zfrooq, Tkno, really like your friendly debate there. Much more interesting to me than the endless speculation over specs.. err... that I kinda just resorted to myself above.

difenbaker

mmm... I think we both have a different view of what an OS is?

for myself, I tend to divide it into 2 parts, 1 is the Menu/User Interface and 2 is the function/core application or programs.

on the first part - I'd agree with you, the s60 UI isn't that smooth, isn't that logical, and sometimes isn't that easy to use. Just to get to an app, for example, requires several button presses. Compare that to the Palm or iPhone or WM 7 UI - and it fails to astound. In fact, it's terribly boring, if I may say so.

on the 2nd part however, in the core functionalities or applications, I would disagree with you. S60 may be old, but it supports multi-tasking - something even the latest iphone doesn't have. It also supports file storage (of ANY file type), whereas the iPhone doesn't. It has a built-in file manager and complete bluetooth functionality - again, the latest iPhone doesn't. It also supports a standardized USB ports (micro and mini)... if you loose your data cable, you can always buy a generic one, and it'll work. Again, the iPhone data port is not the same. S60 also has a lot of customizations in its menus - not just through themes. It also has support of both Java and Flash.

so... in a way, you're correct that its uncompetitive when it comes to the UI, but its not uncompetitive when it comes to functionality of the OS.


cheers!

__________________
...function can't coffee without in the morning. =)

Viipottaja

Agree, although I would add it does not necessarily require many click to get to certain (and user configurable) apps.. Perhaps the fact that S60 gives so much freedom to the user to arrange things around as well as different routes to get to certain things is what is also so confusing to a lot of users.

chilko

so, after combining two rumors i think that Nokia 5530 XpressMusic is going to be announced this month and go on sale in september

seems quite possible

Cor72z

5530 doesn't have WiFi from what i have seen.
Maybe they made a new home screen for not N/E series s60 touch. That would be great.
I hope to see new firmware for my 5800 with something like that (+ kinetic scrolling ).

One more thing. They should make kinetic scrolling in menus too, it's so painful to scroll and navigate to something when there are many things in a list or in menu.

tkno

it still seems to me that the growth in smartphone segment right now is coming from the us finally catching up rest of the developed world in that regard: if you look at the market share development (eg http://jkontherun.files.wordpress.co...rket-share.jpg) you can see that the manufacturers gaining market share were apple and rim. and they are practically irrelevant outside the us markets. on the other hand of course nokia is irrelevant in the us markets.

in the future, there's going to be smartphone growth in the emerging markets, agreed, but that the prices are coming down accordingly. i'm not sure the us centric companies are even interested in that kind of markets... and the us markets share they might have isn't really going to help them much, on the contrary often high us market share makes companies think they got it exactly right and they do the most common mistake in going abroad: try to export their us models exactly. apple already made that mistake once with 1g iphone.

btw, i still believe we're going to see an announcement on monday

Viipottaja

Based on what do you think there is something on Monday?

ps. Completely agree a lot of the smartphone growth having been in the US (and that also explains a big part of Nokia's drop in smartphone global sales share) in the last couple of years.

zfarooq

Yeah I agree with most of what your saying with regards to the US market etc and high end market.

Yeah about the 5530 it doesnt have wifi...so dont think its the pass the parcel product.

Awesome_Aleks

Hmm, no XpressMusic in the 5530's name?

Sounds like it might be a plain all-rounder touch-screen handset, or perhaps they need something to differentiate it from the 5800.

NokiaPort.de

Nokia 5530 has inbuild WLAN. Have a look at the FCC test reports

chilko

today feature is "contact bar". all clues leads to 5530


is it possible the announcement to be next week?

VSOP

Does it have GPS? First rumours indicated that GPS is missing?

chilko

and something from maemo fremantle sdk

Cor72z

So.. Confirmation of Maemo phone.

Viipottaja

Hope so. Although, does its presence in SDK really confirm its presence in all products? I guess not.

Awesome_Aleks

Another clue on the Nokia Conversations Pass the Parcel

Widgets

I would have thought that was the new homescreen

Unless that means you can have the Contact Bar and the Widgets together, that would be interesting

Anyway, sounds likely to be the 5530 XpressMusic, possibly with a fast-tracked release to compete against the iPhone 3GS/3G if they are still offered at a cheaper price

Hopefully the Pass The Parcel ends on Day 15 (with the last clue being Day 14)

chilko

to steal samsung's show


some other clues

"These suggest a Net-connected, Widget-wielding, media-slinging social communication device."

nokrodan

Not likely... if you look a bit lower (under the list of days) you will see the "parcel passers" section... it has 20 sites listed => 20 days, so my guess is that the unveiling will happen on the 19th-20th of june.

difenbaker

Rumor Mill: Nokia 5530 XpressMusic Passes FCC

Another Symbian S60 5th edition device

By Ionut Arghire, Mobile Editor
13th of June 2009, 08:36 GMT

According to the latest news on the Web, a new Nokia touchscreen handset has been recently approved by the FCC. The device, which surfaced into the wild a few months ago, should come as a smaller version of the already popular 5800 XpressMusic, due to the fact that it seems to have about the same size and the same button arrangement as the older model.



The handset that has been approved by the FCC comes with the codename RM-504, and, according to spaziocellulare, it is the same model that was recently spotted on the Nokia Europe website and which had the codename 5530 RM-504. NokiaPort.de managed to take a shot of the dropdown menu on the phone’s page showing the Nokia 5530, so the assumption that the Finnish mobile phone maker is getting ready to unveil the handset might be correct after all.

As many of you might know, the Nokia 5530 XpressMusic was already rumored to be slated for a September release, and it seems that the US market might see the phone as well, though there are no exact details on when it will actually be launched there. Considering the latest Nokia releases in the country, the N97 and N86 8MP, which came quite soon after the FCC approvals, it might not be too long before we hear that the device was officially introduced.

As for the specs of the 5530 XpressMusic, the FCC filing is reported to show quad-band (GSM 850/900/1800/1900), GPRS, EGPRS, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi and a 1000mAh BL-4U battery. Other specs of the handset, previously unveiled, also point towards a 2.9-inch touchscreen display, a 3.2-megapixel camera, FM radio with RDS, 150MB of internal memory, microSD memory card slot and a 3.5mm jack, as well as Symbian S60 5th edition as its operating system. Stay tuned to learn more details as soon as they become available.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Rumor...C-114088.shtml


cheers!

__________________
...function can't coffee without in the morning. =)

se_dude

Couldnt they have just lowered the price of the 5800 without coming out with almost a same device?? beat me. Anyways.

kII

Nokia is now really begining to fall behind the ncompetition, they should be leaking a keyboardless n97/5800, with 8mpxl cam and xenon.

SOMETHING HIGH END PLEASE !!!!!!

tissot

No, there's omnia hd, idou and more devices with big ts and high mpx count. Nokia needs unique ui(sf) or os(maemo) and make them fluid, plus damn good ts response, there you got a winner that will outsell 5800 with higher price point lets say with 5mpx camera and norm Nokia features.

chlettn

Eldar mentions the following in his N86 review:

And Nokia invites bloggers to a German Carl Zeiss factory on June 22nd/23rd:

http://twitter.com/msjen/status/2128015050

There may well be a connection there...

mustis

Hope so. Are Corolla and Eitri still coming?

VSOP

Now things are really getting interesting...


We are maybe seeing Ultimate Nseries devices soon?

http://twitter.com/PeterMaemo/status/2073821707



But there might bee also new Cseries devices? Time will tell....

Computers? Communicators?

T200901035 CSERIES

a2k24

they got canceled, at least what i was told.

timiteh

I wonder what could a better Nokia cameraphone than the N86 have:
HD Video recording ?
Xenon Flash ?
An even better sensor ?
Faster APN ?
Bigger/higher resolution screen ?

Louis_Loh

Optical zoom? Highly needed for wide angle cameras.

Faster shutter speeds.

Autofocus in video as in XPERIA X1 (and iPhone).

a2k24

HD video and higher MP is expected this year.

Viipottaja

Something you are guessing or something you've heard from those in the know? Also, announced or in the shops?

difenbaker

sigh...

I wish nokia would not enter the stupid megapixel race that's goin on now.

there's a whole lot of things they can do to a camera than just bumping up the megapixel count.

__________________
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a2k24

not guessing.....

its kinda inevitable in a way mate. a handful of people are aware it matters squat. but for the masses... higher index, larger number... the bigger the better psychology... that sells.

Vode

Agreed! HD-video would be very welcome tho, along with optical zoom and xenon flash.

oneclick

I agree. But most people does not know this.

Add the fact that the style of phone ADs you see on TV and Magazines - the megapixel count is usually the one that's emphasized first. It's no wonder people are blind to this fact.

quagmire

Agree 110%. no reason to ever go above 8mp given the optics and sensors involved in cameraphones. Just wish they would work with zeiss in improving lens quality like they did with the n86. if i'm shooting above 8mp, i'm using my dslr, not a camera phone with limited optics and sensors