M H

The battery is really weak :-(

akili@matrix_hacker

m.h right. and if it is wm6 the arm11 will be slow.

prachid

No GPS ? The camera should be at least 3.2 M.P. I think I will wait for the next version.

MTM

So no one thinks this is pretty amazing if you compare the specifications with the size? It's almost the same size and have the same looks as the Prada phone, yet the features are much more advanced.

Let's compare it with the Nokia N76, they're pretty much the same size and also both considered fashion devices:

KS20 vs. N76:

Size, weight: 99,5 x 58 x 12,9 mm, 99 g / 106.5 x 52 x 13.7 mm, 115 g
Screen: QVGA, 2.8", 18-bit colours, touchscreen / QVGA, 2.4", 24-bit colours
Battery: 800 mAh / 700 mAh
Connectivity: BT, WiFi, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA / BT, UMTS
Hardware keyboard: None / numeric

So basically the N76 has a little more colours on the screen, a 3.5mm headphone jack and numeric keyboard. KS20 has bigger screen, bigger battery, WiFi, HSDPA, HSUPA and is a little slimmer too. I could use the numeric keypad, but the 3.5mm and especially the extra next-to-invisible colours don't bother me at all.

slacker711

The fact that the handset supports HSUPA makes the Qualcomm MSM7200 a good candidate. It is an integrated baseband/applications processor with a 400MHz ARM11 processor. It is also the first chipset to support HSUPA.

http://www.cdmatech.com/products/msm...t_solution.jsp

The fact that it uses an integrated baseband/application processor might also explain the small size compared to the specs

Slacker

MTM

slacker711, thanks for the information! Didn't know that processor.

If you take a look at this picture from mobnews.ru you will see exactly "ARM1136EJS MSM7200" mentioned as the processor on the About screen on the device.

If you also take a look at the upcoming HTC devices (Nike, Wings, Kaiser) on PDAdb.net, you will see they are also using the MSM7200 processor (if the data provided is correct, of course). Click on 'Switch to Detailed View' on top and look under e.g. Graphical Controller to see the MSM7200 mentioned.

Do you know if it's always the 400 MHz Samsung CPU that's used in the MSM7200, or are there different version with different application processors and clock speeds?

This maybe also mean that the 3 HTC devices will also feature HSUPA (so far the Wings isn't rumoured to have HSUPA), since they are seemingly also using the MSM7200 processor.

On a side note, this thread was featured on Engadget Mobile

Edit: Just seen the MSM7200 processor has integrated GPS. Has updated the first post.

slacker711

Thanks for the link to the picture of the KS20....very cool to have concrete evidence.

I've actually been wondering about the HTC devices as well. The specs of the devices are good but would they really need two 400MHz ARM11 processors? The entire point of the MSM7200 is to have an integrated chip that can support higher level OS's. Here is a press release from Microsoft where they talk about working with Qualcomm on Windows Mobile devices....

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...4MSQCOMPR.mspx

Well, either the specs are wrong, or these HTC devices are going to be seriously powerful devices

FWIW, the way I figure it right now is that every HSUPA device for at least the next six months should have this chipset inside. I dont know of any other manufacturer that is very close to production on HSUPA chips right now. Actually, the networks arent even ready so it is definitely possible that handset companies could put the MSM7200 inside but not turn on the HSUPA capability.

Slacker

MTM

slacker711, very interesting! The Samsung SC32442 400 MHz application processor couldn't be the one actually integrated into the Qualcomm MSM7200 or does the Qualcomm MSM7200 have it's own non-replaceable application processor developed by Qualcomm themselves (or by someone else for that matter)?

I agree with you that having 2 different 400 MHz application processors would seem to be overkill, so I highly doubt that. I know the 400 MHz Samsung processor is one of the fastest on the market today, only topped by Intel's XScale 624 MHz, which I think is far more power-hungry (and of course the upcoming XScale 800+ MHz and Samsung's own 533 MHz, but I don't think they are out in any device yet).

If I know HTC right, they won't disable things in their own (HTC-branded) devices, unless there is some sort of problem with it (e.g. the GPS interfering with the other radio frequencies in the Trinity), but disabling HSUPA could of course shorten the time needed to test the devices, and hence bring the device faster to market. When Hermes (TyTN) came out last year around July with HSDPA I don't think there were too many networks supporting that either, so releasing something with only minor network support doesn't seem to scare HTC. Most of these upcoming HTC devices would probably not reach a wide audience before the end of the year, and by that time I think we will see the first HSUPA enabled networks appearing.

Let's keep our eyes open and see what the first devices that seem to be based on MSM7200 will turn out to be. The first one seems to be the clamshell HTC Erato, which is scheduled for a May release on PDAdb.net (it was scheduled for April last time I checked, though).

On a side note, if Qualcomm is the only one able to deliver HSUPA chipsets for the next half year, I guess Nokia could face a problem. If I recall correctly, Nokia doesn't use Qualcomm solutions any more?

slacker711

My best guess is that this is Qualcomm's own applications processor. They have been talking about this chip for years and have never hinted at a 3rd party developing it. One thing that does confuse things a bit is that Samsung is a foundry partner with Qualcomm and there could be custom designs inside Samsung's own handsets....but for companies like HTC, it is likely an off the rack solution from Qualcomm. I dont think they have said anything explicit about when the first handsets will be hitting the market, but I definitely expect them during the summer (May might be a bit early).

FWIW, Qualcomm is supposed to sample their next generation Scorpion processor in the fall of this year. It is a 1GHz processor based on a custom design of the ARMv7 core.

http://www.cdmatech.com/products/snapdragon.jsp

I wouldnt worry about the lack of HSUPA for Nokia. They didnt get their first HSDPA handset out until just yesterday and it didnt really hurt them much (and the specs on the N95 are awesome!). The operators probably wont start demanding HSUPA handsets until well into next year.

Slacker

MTM

The HTC Trinity (P3600) seems to use the Qualcomm MSM6275 with an integrated 220 MHz ARM9 processor and have a Samsung SC32442 400MHz
processor. I guess they are aiming at the same solutions with the MSM7200 along with the Samsung processor, so we will actually have 2 400 MHz processors in those new devices. Am I understanding it correctly, that these HTC devices will have 2 application processors, while e.g. Nokia N95 will have only the one 330 MHz integrated into its TI OMAP processor (although with some integrated 3D acceleration I don't think the HTC's have)?

Btw, the MSM7200 is listed as being able to record VGA video at 30 FPS, I guess all these new devices would support that too, then? (The only things making me look towards the N95 instead of e.g. the Wings is the superior camera and video recording, but if MSM7200 has VGA @ 30 FPS video... )

Wow, that Snapdragon platform looks really amazing. HSUPA and 1xEV-DO, several mobile TV standards, 1 GHz application processor, etc. It feels weird that we are probably getting used to all that by some time next year.

You're probably right, but for someone like me it would be nice to buy a handset this year, that will actually support HSUPA when it gets launched instead of having to buy a new phone when it does.

slacker711

Hmm, I really wish I had more answers. Qualcomm's statements over the years indicated that the MSM7200 was designed to support OS's like WM6, Symbian, and Linux on its own. However, you are right that some previous HTC handsets have had two ARM9 applications processors. That might just have been because they wanted HSDPA (the MSM6275 was Q's only HSDPA chip at the time), or they might have needed the extra processing power....you definitely couldnt run WM5 on the MSM6275. I'm not sure we'll get any definitive answers until HTC tells us or the FCC releases some internal pictures .

I think the next generation of applications processors are really going to expand wireless beyond the strict definition of the handset. Qualcomm has talked about using the Scorpion processor in Samsung's UMPC line. I would imagine that TI's OMAP3 could do something similar.


Slacker

MTM

Well, I guess PDAdb.net could have just been told that the devices would feature a 400 MHz application processor and then they assumed that it was the Samsung 400 MHz. I don't know their sources or how much they are into the exact specifications and structure regarding e.g. the chipset.

You are right that the press release about Qualcomm and Microsoft working together seems to indicate that the Qualcomm chipset alone should be able to do the job. If HTC were only to use the MSM7200, shouldn't the devices be smaller than they are, since they would feature the same specifications as the LG KS20, only with a bigger battery and some more hardware keys, which shouldn't make them that much bigger? Only time will tell, but at least LG KS20 seems to rely only on the MSM7200, so it will be interesting to see if the HTC devices will run faster if they are to also incorporate the Samsung processor.

UMPC with same chipsets as mobile handsets? Actually sounds very nice and also very probable! The first step has kind of been taken with the HTC Advantage X7500.

I seriously come to wonder how all of this will play out if we look a little further ahead. Are handsets going to run full-scale Windows Vista (with some custom design to make it fit with a smaller screen) in 3-5 years or will there still be a separate solution for handsets? What will happen to e.g. Symbian if Vista is to run on future handsets? Surely Microsoft seems to stand with a winner on its hands if the progress is moving as fast as it is now for the coming years, if they are able to use their massive leading position on the computer OS market and transfer it to the mobile handset market.

kossat

anoyone has more information about the release (or not?) of ks20?

badger

LG might not launch this with GPS enabled. Its not proving stable.

BrightSpark

not for a windows device its not.

MTM

Nothing like a quick bitter comment from you Btw, it turned out there's only one processor


Actually I've never heard anything mentioned about GPS in the KS20 (although I know it's integrated in the chip set used). If released without GPS enabled, could it be enabled by some tweaking (I believe the guys at XDA-Developers can work wonders) or a later firmware update? And is the release still scheduled for September? I'm a little tempted by the new 'flush' finger-controlled touch screens, but AFAIK only two such phones are available in Europe right now (HTC Touch and LG Prada).

BrightSpark

that would be hell for the user of the phone . it would take about 5 hours to boot up.

MTM

One application processor, that is Let's wait and see what the boot up time will be.

kossat

it's weird that we haven't heard any official news from LG.
I'm afraid that LG wants to sell the PRADA for the time being
and that LG will delay the release of KS20 until the arrival of
the iPhone to Europe...

metalowns101

is it me, or isnt this the LG nyx? (spelling?)

there was a little thing about it in t3 magazine, with a 5 mp camera, not a 2 mp?

unless its a completely different phone, in which case, i apologize!

chlettn

metalowns101, I guess you mean that one

kossat

the real question is.... buy today SE P1i or just wait for the release
of the KS20...???

AF

tmt127_18

Hey there, I'm not normally the forum type (I usually just lurk or search around for info) I've been pretty interested in the KS20 for a while now and the lack of info has been killing me to be honest.

I only really joined to add this info for you all who seem to be as interested in this thing as I am.

I found this a while ago;
http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=3964
(linked from here btw)http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/0...esque-handset/

they mention that the final design seems to be similar to the two buttoned longer screened k850/prada than the joysticked demo we've seen before (tho please note that the pics are obvious, tho very tempting photoshops).

Anyways thought I would share the link to see if anyone could confirm or deny this as this handset has a lot of potential.

thanks

kossat

5 days passed with no official news...
does anyone have something new?

MTM

Sadly, no. But at least it seems like I'm not the only one interested in this phone. Only major concern is the battery - let's hope LG can make it sufficiently power efficient.

Anyone else with any news regarding LG KS20? (looking at badger )

kossat

I hope we get something official until 20 August...
I think that se p1i will be my next phone...

MTM

It's should arrive soon according to this article on mobil.nu (in Danish):

Which translates into something like:

Ronka

What i hate about windows mobile, it limits the amount of colour shows on the screen. even thought the screen is capable of showing 256K or 16M colour, it limits everything to 65K.

I have seen HTC Touch screen in real life.. i was really dissapointed with the colour rendering. it looks dull compared to other smartfones like S60 and SE UIQ3 smartfones.

Julia

KS20 passed by FCC:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout =500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=393361&fcc_i d='BEJKS20'

MTM

Julia, thanks for the information

LG seems to want 6 months confidentiality (that is until sometime in January it seems). I hope it will be released before that time has passed.

By the way, the links doesn't seem to work if you click it - you have to copy it into the address bar.

erick

it will be announced this week, according to aving.net

LG expects to unveil its 3G smart phone ?LG-KS20? at the upcoming IFA 2007, which features 12.8mm thickness and 2.8-inch all touch screen display with full browsing capability. Running on Windows Mobile 6.0, the LG-KS20 supports HSDPA network, 3.6Mbps download speed.

Other features of the 3G smart phone included push email service, 2M camera, mp3 playback, Bluetooth 2.0, cursive script recognition and video call. It will be available in 4Q 2007 in Europe market.

http://aving.net/usa/news/default.as...de=01&SP_Num=0

via

http://www.slashphone.com/89/8158.html

Attached Images

lg-ks20-11.jpg (40.3 KB, 239 views)

MTM

erick, thanks for the information!

New Nokia Nseries devices today and this - sweet

Edit: The device is now official and I've made a thread about it in the LG forum over here.