Digital Music Player Knowledge Base. [Archive]

TRicks.

03-02-2005, 18:15

Devices

Flash/Solid State - This is similar product based on flash memory technology. It is completely shockproof, usually no moving parts such as hard disk read/write heads. Can be pretty slim, small and lightweight. Size can range from 64MB-- to 1GB+++

Hard Disk Drive - Intergrated hard disk drive into a portable player. Allows much more storage space - common devices hold around 5000 - 10000 songs. 20GB to 40GB. Not ideal for exercise as theres the moving parts - but most players have intergrated buffers at around 25 minutes (ipod). Works like anti-shock on a CD player. Common players use 1.8in disks i believe.

Most hard disk drives can also be used as a USB mass storage device to store data.

Music Formats.

WMA - windows media audio - some players are compatible with these - Creative, Iriver etc.. but do note that some download site (mycokemusic.com) incoporates DRM protection and this mean only DRM capable WMA players can play.

MP3 - Mpeg layer 3 - most common format of digital music. Made pretty famous my P2P networks. Doesnt seen to be capbale of music protection rights technology.

AAC - Ipod music format... more compact than MP3 but only compatibe with some Nokia phones and Ipod.

OGG Vorbis - Pretty uncommon format seen in Iriver devices, quality is suppose to be pretty good for its size..

Atrac3 and 3PLUS - Sony proprietary format, supposed to allow much better sound at much smaller file sizes.

WAVE - CD format - big file size but wonderful sound.

Recommended encoder: dbpoweramp

Transfer

Most devices tranfer at USB.

USB 1.0 and 2.0 - most common file transfer method and some devices can recharge with this method.
USB 1.0 - 1.5mps
USB 1.1 - 12mps
USB 2.0 - 480mps

Firewire - used in ipods. 400mps

Bits

This determine in a sense the quality and size of the music file.

128kps is a commonly used bits per second.

there are variable, constant and average bit rates. To ensure maximun compatability i suggest you keep it constant.

Headphones

Common headphones run at 3.5mm but there is usually a smaller type for mobile phones.

lol i ll go on about impendence, frequency response, total harmonic distortion and SPL later...thats all the stuff i remember before having to do research on google....so dont hesitate to add anything about this or correct me if neccessary. :lol: BTW - first thread in this new forum! hehe

:beer:

EDIT: nearly there...gathered most of the stuff i need... just a case of puttinig them all here!

sidneylopsides

03-02-2005, 18:57

AAC plays on SE phones too, iTunes names the files .m4a and SE phones understand those too.
ATRAC is used on Minidisc, just didn't mention it, Hi-MD walkmans using the 1GB discs could do with a mention, they exist at least ;)

edit: How about batteries too?

andy.c

04-02-2005, 16:05

If we have a bit luck we might be able to see FireWride800 in the 5G Ipods = 800Mbit/s transfer rate :D sweeeet

Memzee

04-02-2005, 16:21

I find that USB 2.0 is fast enough for me. I remember when I first tried to transfer about 10GB onto my MP3 player by USB 1.1 I had to leave it running over night lol.

Zozo7610

06-03-2005, 00:50

lol i reckon usb 2.0 is so good. i transfered my whole library in about 2-3 minutes, its great. usb is best invention ever!!!!!

qwerty

28-03-2005, 19:07

usb is so commen, we have all but replaced serial and parrallel connections for printers and periferals. also, firewire is used on many DV video cameras

laoslover22000

27-10-2005, 03:55

i have a trio mp3 player and cant figure out how to transfer the music, help please

qwerty

25-01-2006, 22:02

hey, just a reminder, DON'T SPAM THE STICKIES!!!

rejmel21

09-05-2006, 04:59

Goodday,

I was wondering why my mp3 player shutdowns on me when I'm running with it. It shows the same message than when I remove and put back the battery.

Thanks

rattrap

25-02-2007, 22:19

Goodday,

I was wondering why my mp3 player shutdowns on me when I'm running with it. It shows the same message than when I remove and put back the battery.

Thanks

i think your mp3 player use a hard disk, and to prevent any damage on it,when detecting a shock, it automatically turns off

20dB@14Hz

03-05-2007, 19:25

It is perhaps also good to remember some players have colour screen for pics and videos, some have simple mono screen, and some come with no screen.

Examples of players with colour screen:

iPod 5G, ZEN Vision M, ZEN Vision W, iRiver T10, Clix, Zune

Examples of players with mono screen:

iRiver H320, iPod 3G, ZEN micro

Players with no screen:

iPod shuffle, ZEN Stone, Sony Bean, MuVo

BrightSpark

14-07-2007, 20:58

OGG Vorbis - Pretty uncommon format seen in Iriver devices, quality is suppose to be pretty good for its size..
it's not uncommon anymore.
best format is ogg. its free from patents, has better quality than mp3 and others at the same size, and is open source.

a[B][i]s

14-07-2007, 23:30

was not that common 2.5 years back

knights

15-07-2007, 13:55

Yes, Ogg is good... but still, eAAC+ is better in lower bitrares...

koЯngear

07-10-2007, 19:40

Yes, Ogg is good... but still, eAAC+ is better in lower bitrares...

I use 64 KBPS of eAAC+ in my encoded movies in my iPod classic-cool.

icaka

02-01-2008, 21:50

Players with best sound quality:

DAPs - Cowon

PMPs - Cowon, Archos

iRiver, Creative, Sony and etc. are not that good.

Cowon DAPs have best sound quality, and are best overall - great battery life, great build quality, great personalization. Not that popular due to the fact that they are made for the Korean market. Prices are good, too.

**^ramintop^**

02-01-2008, 22:53

icaka,sony are not that good? cnet chose it the best mp3 for its sound quality,they are just not as powerful as cowons and the others,but they are definitely the best sounding flash players!

icaka

02-01-2008, 23:25

Cowon D2 is on top of the flash players in terms of sound quality. Then come Sony A8** series. Power is important, too. Cowon D2(37mW+37mW) is much much much much much better than the ridiculous Sony A-8**series(5mW+5mW ha ha ha lol :lol: )

Sony are just kidding with the customers. They have never been the best flash/HDD based players manufacturers, and will never be. They're too late. Their first flash player was released in 2005, 6 years after the really first one(1999), which was Chinese. Sony are not leaders any more, not even runner-ups. They are completely done with dedicated portable music devices.

Their prices are ridiculously high, too. CNET are pretty good reviewers, but I think the Sony A-8** players were released before Cowon D2 was released. So thats why they said Sonys had the best sound quality. In fact, they are the second-best after Cowons, so to some people they may be best(Sony fanboys are everywhere, don't forget). The guys from Cnet are just trying to sell more, nothing wrong with that.

3 more reasons why Cowon D2 has better sound quality than Sony A-8** :

1. Sony A-8** series have internally raised frequency response at 100Hz(and around) and 16kHz(and around) by 0.8db in order to sound "better". So they sound warmer, but not better.

2. Cowon D2 has sound effects (BBE Sound effects) which improve the quality of sound, and before you say I'm crazy, I'll tell you that its proven by RMAA results.

3. Cowon D2 supports lossless formats such as FLAC and APE. While it may look like a not so important thing, FLAC/APE have been compared in RMAA tests to mp3@320kbps and etc., and yes - they distort much less and the frequency response is much more even.

**^ramintop^**

02-01-2008, 23:59

icaka, your cra......oh! :p
i will be very sad if i didnt find the cowon in dubai!:( what is the second best sound quality?

icaka

03-01-2008, 00:04

The mentioned Sony A-8** series.(other than Cowon iAudio7 :p )
They are a lot easier to find.
:D

Why don't you get a Cowon D2 from some online store? Or bid on eBay? :D

**^ramintop^**

03-01-2008, 00:12

icaka,im ashamed to say this,but i dont know from where(international dealer),and how,i never did it before! :( i have to know soon cause the only way to get the UE super.fi EB is through the internet! it would be awesome getting some help! :D

icaka

03-01-2008, 00:20

http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15884 for Cowon D2

www.headphone.com for headphones and headphone amps. There are other sites too, but I have no experience with them. Also, headphone.com has special B-stock offers - headphones and other things, which were reviewed and can't be sold at 100% of the price. Their prices are quite good, I must add. :)

I'll be glad if I've been helpful.

EDIT: Some of the best(if not best) reviews and selection guides of headphones are in headphones.com

**^ramintop^**

03-01-2008, 00:31

icaka, thanks,im sorry for being annoying,but what do i need if im buying from an online dealer,and what are the best dealers for shipping to egypt? :)
the super.fi EB got 2.5/5? why?

difenbaker

03-01-2008, 00:45

mmm... talking about digital music players... maybe cellphones should be included as well? Most especially those with A2DP (stereo bluetooth)... since they are very good in pumping out music, sometimes better or equal to, dedicated digital audio players.

cheers!

icaka

03-01-2008, 01:04

No, A2DP transfer has quality of around 128kbps CBR mp3, nowhere near the competition. Even N91 or Samsung F310 can't match Cowon D2, if they are used with wired headphones, so really there's no need to add mobile phones for now.(maybe until N96 comes?)

@**^ramintop^**

Here you'll find some detailed info:
http://www.headphone.com/support/ordering-with-headroom/ordering-internationally/

You may use the common credit cards directly - Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discovery. PayPal is another method.

I don't really know the best dealers for shipping to Egypt. The headphones from headphone.com are sent from the US. If you mean for the player - maybe some European or Near East dealers will be cheapest to deliver. But their "regular" price may be higher, so you should look for that too. ;)

Hmm the super.fi 5 EB got so low not because they're bad, but because there are similarly priced IEMs which offer a little bit better detail, or are more comfortable. But for bass monsters( :D ) like you, super.fi 5 EBs provide the strongest and best quality bass out there, so should be rated at 7/5. :D

Super.fi 5 EB are unique by their nature. There are no other similar bass-heavy IEMs.

**^ramintop^**

03-01-2008, 01:22

oh thanks! i feel much relieved now!
this will be a long research before i buy the headphones,so i'll start looking! thanks again for your generous help! :)

icaka

03-01-2008, 01:56

np mate! I hope you'll find what you need sooner than later. :)

stevenlewis

05-01-2008, 21:09

oh thanks! i feel much relieved now!
this will be a long research before i buy the headphones,so i'll start looking! thanks again for your generous help! :)

hi the cowon d2 is not available officialy in dubai, though i came accross a shop that stocked these but just the 2 ad 4 gb ones..

icaka, thanks,im sorry for being annoying,but what do i need if im buying from an online dealer,and what are the best dealers for shipping to egypt? :)
the super.fi EB got 2.5/5? why?

and the cowon site does show retailers in egypt..

**^ramintop^**

05-01-2008, 23:43

stevenlewis, omg how stupid of me!!! thanks a ton!:D
but please tell me where in dubai?!!:)

icaka

06-01-2008, 16:06

but just the 2 ad 4 gb ones..

The 8GB version is not available yet. Will come soon though.

stevenlewis

09-01-2008, 13:49

stevenlewis, omg how stupid of me!!! thanks a ton!:D
but please tell me where in dubai?!!:)

Al Otaiba communications/ al-ain plaza/ Bur Dubai/ on the ground flr..

04 - 3517081 contact a guy call luis..

n ur welcome :)

**^ramintop^**

13-01-2008, 20:29

stevenlewis, i got it from egypt!!!! :D thanks again! :)

icaka, it definitely sounds fantastic!!!! and LOUD! im so happy! thanks again for your help,i now have the best sounding mp3! :)

icaka

14-01-2008, 13:12

icaka, it definitely sounds fantastic!!!! and LOUD! im so happy! thanks again for your help,i now have the best sounding mp3! :)

Np, mate! Congrats! :D

May you compare the sound quality and volume of D2 vs N91 if you happen to find N91 from somewhere(and PLEASE do it with WAV files)?

**^ramintop^**

14-01-2008, 16:35

icaka,i did today,but no WAV sorry,but i will ;).the BASS is mind blowing!! i thought the bass was awesome in the n91,well you havent heard real bass yet,with the mach3bass set to the end,you need real high-end headphone to take advantage of the powerful sound,ofcourse sound quality is what made my jaws drop,it makes the stupid headphones that come with it sound good! also it is REALLLYYYYY loud,the loudest i can get to is 40,the max is 50,and i can take loud,but any louder than 40 can hurt your ears! ofcourse battery life is excellent and all those features! finally i found the mp3 player i was looking for!:)
next mission: UE super.fi 5 EB! :p

icaka

14-01-2008, 19:59

Oh thanks, mate! :)

Well for best bass you SHOULD use lossless formats like FLAC,APE, Apple lossless or WAV, but since N91 doesn't support any of them, the only way is WAV comparison. Thats because lossy formats use psychoacoustic encoding, which is said to be "cutting the unimportant sound material that cannot be perceived by the brain" but thats quite a slippy thing, because lossy encoding is much more based on nowadays players' capabilities - they're not that detailed and are supposed to be connected to some not that good headphones, and they're less powerful so no need to save the low bass frequencies, as they wouldn't be amplified enough to impact the sound enough, also high frequencies are cut very much.

However, there are some players - Cowon D2, X5/X5L(and some other Cowons), some iRivers and Archos players which have greater capabilities than the common players which lossy formats are created for. So these player definitely need lossless formats in order to use their full potential.

Also, I think lossless formats are kinda louder-sounding compared to lossy formats, partially because of the missing things in lossy files and also because of some decoding difference, which cripples lossy files even more.

I think V-Moda have some "Bass freq." or something like that model, which may be easier to find and good sounding too, not better than the UEs, but considerably cheaper, making it a bargain.

About the bass of D2 - well thats real bass I would say, but you're wrong that I haven't heard bass like that. ;)

I've got an E-Mu 1616m (http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=13552) with HEAVILY modified external hardware, including changed DAC , balanced PAS amp (http://sjostromaudio.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=27)(in fact I connect my SACD player through the S/PDIF, using the decoding precision of the modified MicroDock-M), as well as custom aluminum chassis and custom power supply(QSXPS Rev.1) (http://sjostromaudio.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=68&Itemid=27) and power supply regulators(JSR-03 (http://sjostromaudio.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&Itemid=27)+JSR-05 (http://sjostromaudio.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=27)(also PAS).

Generally there is a power supply and some regulation on the amp's pcb, but its better to separate the power from the audio circuits.

The sound is mind blowing and I got accustomed to it, thats the only drawback. :D

**^ramintop^**

14-01-2008, 20:56

icaka,where can i download lossless formats from?
the v-moda is cheap,but i think its not worth buying the cowon if i'll play it with a pair of $60 headphones.
and i mean bass in media players! :p

icaka

14-01-2008, 21:04

You can download lossless formats codecs from many sites, but they are only for Windows(OS X/Linux and etc.) computers, and maybe for Windows CE/Linux based portable devices. The lossless formats codecs can't be uploaded to a player directly(maybe if its based on Win CE/Linux it is possible), and are sometimes added by the manufacturer in firmware updates if the hardware has the power to decode such files.

But Windows CE/Linux portable devices are PMPs, I haven't seen a DAP so far, and anyway, they come with many codecs on board.

EDIT: Oooh you're talking about the D2? Don't bother with codecs, it has FLAC, APE, WMA, OGG and a bunch of other codecs installed by the manufacturer.

EDIT2: Here (http://iaudiophile.net/news.php) you may find many interesting and useful things about Cowon players, btw D2 is the most heavily-updated DAP so far - check your version and update if necessary. Also, scroll down the page I posted and you'll find some nice skins for the D2. :cool:

EDIT3: It looks like that the latest update is a beta version(3.53b), though I'm not quite sure. There are some people complaining about it that have downgraded to 3.51. Maybe its the right thing to do until the final version of 3.53 arrives.

**^ramintop^**

14-01-2008, 21:12

icaka, where can i download songs in this format?

icaka

14-01-2008, 21:19

Hmm type the name of the album/song you want, followed by FLAC in Google. For example:

The Crystal Method - Vegas FLAC

That will work, but you have to search in the results, because many of them will contain these words, but that doesn't mean Vegas will be encoded in FLAC, it means that somewhere in the page there is written FLAC.

You may add the word "torrent", but I don't advise it, because you'll hurt the labels' feelings. :p :D

**^ramintop^**

14-01-2008, 21:57

icaka

14-01-2008, 22:36

icaka, oh it worked lol,again thanks for the help,you really deserve the trusted member label! :)
btw the FLAC files are huge,i can have like 5 or 6 of my top songs in FLAC,its enough i guess.
my firmware is 2.5,so i will update it now,oh and the skins are awesome,YAY! :D

Thanks for the honour!

I'm glad to help you. And thats much more than that - your questions and problems are not that rare and its good for the other people to have some piece of advice about things in practice, not in common. Many people read this forum and I think with that kind of discussion they'll find what they want easier.

FLAC files are not that small, but thats because you're accustomed to mp3 file sizes. Its like complaining about a video in 176x144@15fps, when you're watching a 2.8" QVGA display. Well the 176x144@15fps clip is much smaller, but do you feel that you get the most of your device? Whats the point in having an unmatched(well except the X5/X5L) DAP if you don't use it?

You got the 4GB version, right? I'll suggest that you download the FLAC files to the internal memory, not the memory card, because if you put the memory card in your phone these files will be unusable.

Also, a 8GB(or 16GB) microSDHC card will make this little thingy a MONSTER! (32GB will probably arrive next year or 2010)

Yeah, the skins are awesome! :D

Ooops, my bad, the player doesn't have a microSDHC slot, right? It has a SDHC slot! That means you could use your microSDHC card with an adapter, BUT(and thats a B.I.G. BUT) also means that you could buy a 32GB SDHC card RIGHT NOW (http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/22/toshiba-announces-32gb-16gb-sdhc-cards/)! :jump:

**^ramintop^**

14-01-2008, 23:07

icaka,thanks!:)
im trying to download the themes,but it just isnt working! :( the firmware is updated to 3.53,also the dictionary doesnt work!
i'll buy the SD card later,because im aiming at the UE headphones now,but im so excited for the very high memory im getting!

icaka

14-01-2008, 23:23

Maybe its better to downgrade to 3.51. I don't know about the themes though. :confused:

**^ramintop^**

14-01-2008, 23:35

icaka,oh solved already,its really an awesome player,very customizable!:)

icaka

15-01-2008, 13:41

icaka,oh solved already,its really an awesome player,very customizable!:)

Yeah, I'd have bought it earlier but I thought I should wait for X5's successor... and that was like 4 months ago... :D

Still no X5's successor. Cowon guys are waiting for BMW to release BMW X7 or what?!?!? :spy:

Then I thought about getting the D2 8GB but its still unavailable. :(

D2 is really customizable - you can change the function of some(or all?) of the keys on top - for example you may make the volume rocker to change tracks instead.

**^ramintop^**

17-01-2008, 22:30

i downloaded some FLAC songs to the d2,and the sound quality is definitely good,but i need some high end headphones to really experience their full potential.

icaka

17-01-2008, 23:26

i downloaded some FLAC songs to the d2,and the sound quality is definitely good,but i need some high end headphones to really experience their full potential.

Then I'll wait till you get the UEs! :D

**^ramintop^**

18-01-2008, 18:11

icaka, yesterday my cowon fell,and i thought it was ok,but when i tried to raise the volume,the volume key was broken!!!:mad: just from a fall,i thought i was jinxed lol,because i just came back from getting my fixed laptop(vista),i was going to be like "why is this happening to me? whyyyyy?!":p, but i saw this http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19300 and i started jumping from joy,it was going to be useless because i couldnt raise the volume! such a strange build quality issue from cowon!

icaka

18-01-2008, 19:15

I'm sorry for you, pal. :( What about your warranty? Can't you take the player to the authorized service, even if you need to pay something(which is probably the case)?

EDIT: I just read the topic, and its not that bad really. But I didn't understand your post after the moment you were jumping from joy... May you explain?

(Yeah, I saw the "theme" solution, but I would prefer hardware keys so that I could change the volume while the player is in my pocket.)

**^ramintop^**

18-01-2008, 19:31

icaka, i was jumping from joy because the volume was only 15,if i didnt find a solution to the problem,the player was going to be useless.
i went to the store and they told me to come on sunday because they were too busy,and they had a holiday the day after until sunday,so ill have to wait,and yes i will pay!
btw i tried the cowon with some sony ex82 headphones,and the flac formats,and the sound was really really really good,my friends couldnt believe how bad their ipods sound,the i didnt tell them it was a codec called flac though! :p
another thing,the notepad is really fun,and the scientific calculator is really useful! i LOVE this little thing!

icaka

18-01-2008, 19:47

Yeah,despite the build issues, its worth every cent. Its sooo much better than iPod! Your friends are so jealous now, trust me! :D

Btw, there are games too. You can play Sudoku and etc., I suggest you read the two D2 reviews in iaudiophile.com(get in the Reviews section, they are just after the Cowon iAudio7 review.

http://iaudiophile.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.95

http://iaudiophile.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.97

You have Radio, Paint, Dictionary, Recording, Image and Text viewers, Flash Lite support( here (http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=62) you may find more - games and stuff)

When I read the thread you posted, I noticed the guys said that D2 was easy to repair. It should be easy to change the battery(that is something suggested by a guy in the thread), and it should be easy to upgrade the opamp and maybe the headphone amp too. That will improve the sound even more(the opamp will be easier to change, as opamps have standard pin layouts and packages, probably SOIC in D2's case). That doesn't mean anything to you, but I hope Cowon D3 or X7(whatever I buy at the end) will be that customizable too. :jump:

**^ramintop^**

18-01-2008, 20:03

icaka, lol, is it that customizable?! flash up to 32gb,and you can improve sound quality and battery life! hmmmm take that apple!!!! :p

icaka

18-01-2008, 22:29

Technically, microSDHC is limited up to 32GB. SDHC cards are much bigger and certainly there will be bigger capacities soon - I think the theoretical maximum capacity of SDHC cards should be somewhere between 128GB and 512GB.

And yes, that little buddy makes iPods look like crap in every single aspect. :D

Batteries and opamps are not exactly Plug'n'Play, but with some average electronics knowledge I think its possible to tweak D2. Cowon players are niche products - they are targeted at the geeks, so a tweaked D2 shouldn't be such a rarity. :) (but don't forget that D2 has MAMMOTH battery life - 52 hours(beaten only by Cowon iAudio7 - 60 hours - not that different, but still), and second-best sound after X5/X5L - though difference will be extremely hard to hear outdoors, even indoors only with IEMs costing more than the player itself)

**^ramintop^**

19-01-2008, 21:53

icaka, what headphones do you think i should buy? i like really punchy but really good bass response,and ofcourse good quality mids and highs,i've been looking at the UE super.fi 5 EB,but since the cowon is capable of driving full size headphones,why not? :)
my budget is close to the price of the UE.
some notepad samples:p:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3981/np00021ex6.png
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8639/np00024sy8.png

icaka

20-01-2008, 00:17

Haha, nice. :)

Well I suggested IEMs mainly for two reasons:

1) D2's sound quality. You won't enjoy it if the outside noise isn't blocked. IEMs are the best way to do it.

2) Portability issues. The only portable headphones(not IEMs) which have good sound quality are Sennheiser PX100, AKG K24P and K26P, Koss Portapro and B&O Form 2.(sorry if I missed something)

But these don't have the IEMs' sound quality, and are not so portable. Also, you can't replace the cables by yourself(in the case of UE), they don't block noise so the people around you can hear what you're listening to.

The choice is yours.

**^ramintop^**

20-01-2008, 22:03

icaka, fine fine! i'll get the UE! :p

icaka

20-01-2008, 22:49

Oh, btw if you can't find UE IEMs from a local retailer, look for M-Audio IEMs - IE-10/IE-20 EB/IE-30/IE40. These are basically refurbished and cooler looking UE IEMs - IE-20 EB is super.fi 5 EB which you're looking for.

:)

**^ramintop^**

20-01-2008, 23:11

icaka, how is that? are they the same exact headphones?
i saw it,its $60 more expensive?!

icaka

20-01-2008, 23:25

Yeah, EXACTLY the same, it is even written in the site of M-AUDIO. They may have higher MSRP, but you should find them for about the same street price. And if you find them for the same price - get the M-AUDIO-branded ones, as they have slightly better package.

60$ isn't that much more, because if you don't have UE IEMs around you should pay around 40-50 bucks for shipping and fees(maybe even more).

EDIT: I just checked and the M-AUDIO variant is called IE-20 XB, not EB.(sorry, my bad)

**^ramintop^**

20-01-2008, 23:40

icaka, ok i'll look for it :),but when you say local stores,you mean in the internet? or like shops and stores here in egypt?

icaka

20-01-2008, 23:51

Like shops and stores in Egypt, and in your city mainly. You should look for professional audio gear shops - dynacord, stanton, m-audio and etc., you know. They should have these IEMs or at least they can order them. Look here, mate:

http://www.dynacord.com/wDynacord/en/bezugsquellen/land.php?continent_id=1&country_id=48&market_id=1

Can you find that?

**^ramintop^**

21-01-2008, 00:42

icaka, i'll call them tommorow and ask,but even if its in egypt, i will get it from the internet,prices in egypt are exaggerated!

icaka

21-01-2008, 13:00

Consider the VAT and shipping, also these headphones have 1/2 years warranty(I think 2 but I'm not sure) so its better to get them from somewhere near.

**^ramintop^**

22-01-2008, 01:33

icaka, there was something wrong with the number,i couldnt call!
there is another number i'll try http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=store.international&is_evolution=1&is_maudio=1#EG
but im not sure if i can get the m-audio or UE! :( they are expensive for me now! and i cant wait,so i think i'll go for a pair of sennheiser cx500! what do you think?

icaka

22-01-2008, 14:49

You get what you pay for. YOU should decide what to get. I wouldn't get some Sennheiser IEMs(even Sennheiser don't use them for their Personal Monitoring Systems - they use UE).

I've had some CX300s and they were not bad for the money, but its like having a Range Rover with 15" rims.

**^ramintop^**

22-01-2008, 14:55

the m-audio IE-20 XB is 1650 L.E.($300)!!!!!! :eek: thats 100 L.E. less than the cowon D2! noway man! lol i have parents you know!:p i will see if the UE are cheaper from the internet! :( my budget is 1000 L.E. at most.

icaka

22-01-2008, 19:19

the m-audio IE-20 XB is 1650 L.E.($300)!!!!!! :eek:

:eek:

LOL thats really much! IE-30 are sold for about 300$. Then maybe you'd want to buy some Shure E2c(or even E3c)? They are cheaper and even in Egypt they should be not more than 200$.(E2c around 100 bucks, I suppose)

(still I'd save for the UEs, but thats just me)

**^ramintop^**

22-01-2008, 20:34

icaka, yes the UE maybe,but not the m-audio! :p sorry for disturbing you, and thanks for the help! :)

icaka

22-01-2008, 22:05

Don't forget UE super.fi 3 Studio as an option. They're still UEs, you know - user-replacable cable, nice looks, nice sound... These Shures - E2/E3 are quite revealing in the high register and even in Cowon D2 you will hear some disturbances in the sound.

**^ramintop^**

27-01-2008, 20:34

icaka, i need your help,there is a problem that my dad is in dubai,and there are only shures, shure se210 and se310,what has the best bass response? or even the cx500 if its available?

icaka

27-01-2008, 21:08

I'm not quite sure, I think CX500 has the strongest(but muddiest) bass of the three, SE310 is with less bass, but better detailed bass and SE210 is behind them on both parameters. I'd get the SE310, but its your decision.

Razer

28-01-2008, 05:48

icaka which is the headphone in your avatar?

mango1

28-01-2008, 07:49

were is the file what happeng

**^ramintop^**

28-01-2008, 11:26

icaka, ok thanks! shure it is! :)
erazer007, grado gs1000! :)

icaka

02-02-2008, 14:16

ramintop, what about the Shures? Any impressions?

**^ramintop^**

05-02-2008, 12:50

icaka, no not yet :(, my father is coming in a week or so! i'll have to wait with my SE headphones! :( (they are pretty good btw!)

icaka

05-02-2008, 19:12

i'll have to wait with my SE headphones! :( (they are pretty good btw!)

Say that after a week or so! :p

(at first, you may not like the sound of the Shures - they won't be broken in. After 50-100 hours of playing they will be. Then you will be able to do a fair listening test.)

**^ramintop^**

06-02-2008, 13:34

icaka, yes i know, for the bass and everything, i hope the bass is atleast satisfying!
the hpm-70 is very good as a mobile headset and for its price.

knights

06-02-2008, 17:14

**^ramintop^**

if you want bass heavy headphones, then shure is not for you... i read many comparative reviews about IEMs, shure isnt just for heavy bass...consider the old fairly priced cx300 and the "jays" family of IEM... shure is known for more balance and accurate sounding headphone... well, im using old e2.. compared to hpm-70, you will more happy with hpm-70's bass...

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3748/knightse2jf8.jpg
also consider the song bitrate when you're using sensitive IEMs as you'll really hear every minute compression artifacts.... my collection are almost at 160-192kbps which isnt good for e2, thats why most of the time im still using old sony ex-71 than my e2...

**^ramintop^**

06-02-2008, 19:36

knights, lol these are the headphones that made me hate shure, i got these before, and traded them for a pair of cx-300's, the saleswoman said there was a problem with the headphones, but the headphones do sound good, i felt a HUGE difference when i compared them with hpm-70's(except for the bass).
about the bitrates, what about flac 800-1000?! :p (icaka :D)

knights

08-02-2008, 03:39

about the bitrates, what about flac 800-1000?!

thats for serious audiophile tracks.... FLACs takes so much space... i have a nmber (about 50) of FLAC tracks here. i encoded it just for comparison... i cant hear much dif between 320kbps eAAC and FLAC 800... anyway, whats the best ripper for FLAC? i use old version of "DBPOWERAMP".... i also read about IPOD support on flac with modified FW, anyone tried it yet?... and aside from COWON and RIO, what other popular DAP supports flac?

icaka

08-02-2008, 09:33

Maybe iRiver, Archos or some Creative-s?

About the encoder - I use dbpoweramp too, but they're all the same - as long as you have the latest codec update for flac.

knights

09-02-2008, 12:25

icaka

Thanks.... using that GRADO headphones of yours, whats your feedback on FLAC 800 compared to 320kbps eAAC? full size headphones do have better dynamic range than IEM, thats why im asking...

icaka

09-02-2008, 13:08

In fact I don't know if eAAC at 320kbps even exists... Isn't eAAC(enhanced AAC) only for high-compression low-quality music?(up to 160-192kbps lets say :? )

These Grados are quite good, and they are best for low-volume listening.(so that means long audio sessions). I listen to high-quality tracks only(with them), because usually the music styles I listen to indoors are more popular on CD or SACD. On the other side, outdoors I listen to more dynamic and generally newer tracks, which can't be found on SACD(and anyway, there isn't a single DAP/PMP that can play DSD). So its quite a pointless comparison IMO, even if I could do it. But yes, FLAC(800 doesn't mean anything, FLAC is lossless format so its generally 1411kbps, but many players are buggy with FLAC bitrates) is better than lossy formats and its quite audible.

**^ramintop^**

09-02-2008, 13:16

knights, you wont notice any difference with normal headphones, but with bigger and stronger headphones, they need really high quality audio to bring out their full potential!

knights

09-02-2008, 13:35

**^ramintop^**

09-02-2008, 14:30

knights, welcome! :)
if you are a bass head, go for the beyerdynamics DT770.
if you want audiophile grade sound quality, go for the sennheiser HD-650, but you should have a strong enough amplifier to drive these headphones.
if you want portability go for the shure (se310, se420, se530)
if you are listening to music from a weak source( a mobile phone for example) go for either the shures, or creative zen aurvana x-fi headphones, they have the x-fi crystaliser technology, so they enhance the quality! :)

icaka

09-02-2008, 17:18

**^ramintop^**
icaka

Thanks for the inputs guys... i thought my quest for high quality audio listening was ended with e2 and 320kbps lossy formats (who wants to bring cd-players now?)... now i think that it was only the beginng... aside frm GRADO (which isnt availble here), what other full size headphones you have tested that you can recomnd? BOSE, AKG, and SEN are availble here...

I'd say that even though Grado GS1000 are my favourite pair of headphones due to their ability to reproduce music very well at low volume, I'm a fan of Beyerdynamic and especially DT880 & DT990 for "fun" listening at higher volume. Beyerdynamic's sound is "forward", which is not exactly the case with GS1000. I'd suggest that you start with some DT990s(Edition 2005), which are the most enjoyable headphones, and whatever you listen to, it will sound good. Its not like that with AKGs, Senns or Grados. DT990 are not as pricey as HD650, too. I like the emotionality of Beyerdynamic's headphones, and DT990 are exceptional for that. DT880 are slightly better at mids(slightly really), but reproduce bass much worse, the low-bass is totally omitted. Don't forget that you'll need an amp for circumaural(large) headphones to sound good and loud enough.

saliquincer

04-03-2008, 13:24

new cowon video player
http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/cowon/a3/

**^ramintop^**

08-03-2008, 13:51

heey icaka! i got the sennheiser cx500 as my parents thought that its expensive enough for a headphone lol, its not bad though, im really enjoying it, thanks for your help again! :D

icaka

10-03-2008, 21:23

Np, mate! :)

Hopefully you will enjoy your CX500, they have one of the best performance/price ratios(non-ultra audiophile) around. :)

I got Sennheiser PMX70 Sport last week for the gym and some jogging too and I gotta say I'm pretty impressed. Not that much with the sound quality(though not that bad), but with the EXCEPTIONAL fit - I've never used headphones with easier and more secure fit than these. You just put them and they stay the best way they can. Truly exceptional for gym and jogging. Totally unfallable. Very comfy too. They are sensitive enough, the cable is not too thin and they are sweat and water resistant. And they look so good with my custom grey and green Nike Shox...I am totally sold.

**^ramintop^**

10-03-2008, 22:36

the cx500 is like a 52" 1080p lcd, but it doesnt compare to the 103" panasonic plasma, which is the shure se530, if you know what i mean! :p but im really loving the cx500, the bass is crazy! which is great for my liking, honestly i dont regret my purchase at all! :)

xkube

14-05-2008, 05:35

i got myself a cowon d2 2days ago.. wow going back and fort on diff playlist or filter is very tedious! otherwise.. excellent audio quality imo abit better than sony a808

icaka

14-05-2008, 10:01

i got myself a cowon d2 2days ago.. wow going back and fort on diff playlist or filter is very tedious! otherwise.. excellent audio quality imo abit better than sony a808

Btw, I got Sony A818 a month ago for use in the gym, and I must admit it has great sound quality, but its more warm-sounding than the D2(D2 is analytic). I wasn't totally freaked out by the SQ of A818 until I played with the test menu and adjusted the DAC gain and then fine-tuned the EQ. Now THATS what I call sound! :love:

ramintop, and the 103" Panasonic plasma is nothing like a 103" laser-lit display watched with 3D spectacles, which is UE11 (http://www.ultimateears.com/_ultimateears/products/custom/ue11pro_description.php).

:D

Awesome_Aleks

14-05-2008, 11:08

icaka

14-05-2008, 15:52

Is the A818 the one with a 2.4" display?

What's the Test Menu, just an options menu or a special menu normal people aren't meant to know about ;)

Oh yeah, how do you get Software Upgrades for WalkMan's? Off a site or don't they publish them?

They still aren't selling these things in Australia, we don't get them till next month <_<

No, A818 is the older, 2.0" version. I like it more than the new A72x/A82x series, as its much smaller and thinner and has slightly better sound quality. I grabbed one for the under 100 euro, which was a bargain. :) The new one costs twice as much, and is the same as A818 but with slightly larger screen and a ton of drawbacks. 2.0" is fine for music, I don't really need more.

The Test Menu is not for the mortals( :D ), its a special service menu. There you can find some nice tuning options. ;)

There aren't really firmware updates for Sony Walkman DAPs. Their firmware is flawless, and from the release its rock stable.

You have A818 around, I believe, and you don't really need the newer version(apart from A829, which is 16GB, but for its price you can get 3xA818 - 24GB music) unless your wallet is too full and you just want to clear the mess a bit. ;)

Awesome_Aleks

14-05-2008, 23:41

icaka

15-05-2008, 05:28

WalkMan's are ultra-expensive here in Australia though, 8GB A818 is the same price (RRP) as the 80GB iPod Classic (A828 won't be much better when it comes out next month)

Is there a way for us mortals to access the "Test Menu" Or is it only for Sound Techicians etc ;)

Sorry for you guys in Australia. Its a pity you have to wait much or pay much more for the same technology. :-/

Anyway, if you can listen to A818 for a few minutes, try it. You may like it, or you may not. At least you'll know. The sound is very different compared to an iPod. But its certainly not as powerful as G5.5/Classic, which is a little bit unfair of course. But its fine with earphones. If you like it, you may consider the S61x series, which is the same inside minus the metal housing and the nicer design of A81x, but it has FM radio. A better alternative than the iPod is a Zune. It has the perfect price/performance ratio, especially for storage capacity(the 30GB version). The sound is very nice too, just a notch below Sonys, but I think its more powerful(?). The drawback of Zune is mainly the lack of proper EQ, its good to use earphones you like with flat EQ(+/-1) on your home stereo. Don't get the Zune 8GB, because its not the same as 30GB/80GB versions inside, its with much lower sound quality.

Even if you're not that picky about sound quality and stuff, the Sonys will certainly impress you with the bundled earphones(MDR-EX082 with A8xx series, which are sold for 59USD at sonystyle.com) which have MUCH better sound quality than all the other bundled 'phones. NOWHERE NEAR. Comfort is top notch, too. So if you don't consider getting high-end canalphones(which will make your Sony shine), the Sony will be your best buy DAP, the others just NEED at least EX082 to sound good. What about buying one online from Sonystyle.com? There is a -50 dollar coupon for the silver A818(write "walkman50" in the gap), which is discounted already(170-150 is 120, I believe :D), it has free shipping too(though I'm not sure for Australia).

Test Menu is only for technicians, but if you get an A818, I'll tell you the key combination for it. :p

Awesome_Aleks

15-05-2008, 11:16

LOL, I found a document just after I posted with the key combo for the A828 ;)

I wanted the Zune for a fair while, the 80GB is quite cheap when imported from America but the lack of Equaliser really turns me off (I love Bass)

It has Gapless playing though which is very nice :)

Does the Walkman have gapless playback?

EDIT: The Sony Style site here in Australia is mysteriously out of stock of the A818 in Black (the only one I would buy, not a big fan of white even though it looks nice, and I dislike the other colours)

If I find it on Clearance at a local shop or something at a nice price it could be good, but I would still like the 16GB and especially the BlueTooth of the new model

icaka

15-05-2008, 13:32

The silver A818 is simply great. Black is not that great, but its more practical.

The combination for the test menu of A82x series is different from the A81x series.

koЯngear

15-05-2008, 21:07

The silver A818 is simply great. Black is not that great, but its more practical.

The combination for the test menu of A82x series is different from the A81x series.
iCAKA, if you were asked to rate top 5 MP3 players currently, what would be your list?

knights

16-05-2008, 03:20

iCAKA, if you were asked to rate top 5 MP3 players currently, what would be your list?

not considering that non-mortals tweaking option....;)

icaka

16-05-2008, 14:38

Why? You can find the Test Menu button combination in Google. I can write it, but I kinda don't see the point to do that, if noone can use it, because its like 15-20 keys long and anyway, I'll need to type it again if somebody gets a Sony as he wouldn't search in the previous pages.

Top 5... lets see...(not placed in any order)

Sony A72x/A8xx series
Cowon D2
iRiver Clix2/E10
Zune 30GB/80GB(not 8GB)
Toshiba Gigabeat T400

Samsung P2 and iPod Touch are nice, but they're more in the Video category and slightly worse sounding compared to the above. Sandisk Sansa Clip is nice tiny player with very good sound quality too. Its much better than iShuffle on pretty much every front except thickness and the metal housing of iShuffle. But its cheap, rugged and is perfect for the gym or some jogging.

Awesome_Aleks

17-05-2008, 03:27

Cnet.com.au reports that we get the raw deal on the new WalkMan's

the new 4GB, 8GB & 16Gb WalkMan's are the A720 series

We only get one of the new BlueTooth models, the A826KB (it is the only one under the A8xx line) It is the crap 4GB model, and to rub it in further, it's "Limited Edition" It costs $289 which converts to roughly 140 pounds

I guess that if I'm buying a WalkMan it won't be the one with the BlueTooth in it, 4GB isn't enough

And although it looks awesome, the S710 series is probably better suited to me as it seems better protected, cheaper and has FM Radio (Same audio quality???)

xkube

17-05-2008, 06:02

icaka

17-05-2008, 21:09

Awesome_Aleks s710 is basically a8xx with diffirent casing. my buddy has one.

icaka i find d2 bass abit harsh... not as smooth as walkman a8xx. do u have a good all around equaliser setting on ur d2? care to share.

S710 is based on the same platform as A8xx indeed, but it has FM radio too, which lowers the sound quality a bit(mainly in the highs - they are harsher).

Mate, I don't have D2, I've got Sony A818. What do you mean by harsh bass? Highs can be harsh/piercing, bass can be muddy/bloated/overwhelming. Still, maybe the problem is not really the player, but the headphones.

**^ramintop^**

20-05-2008, 23:37

icaka

21-05-2008, 00:44

xkube, my equaliser is set to rock, with BBE and MACH3BASS set to 10, the sound is really good, i dont know how the sony is if its better than that, it must be heavenly, my cousin started laughing out loud when she listened to some flac files! lol
btw icaka, is the s610's sound quality the same as the a810? plz i need a quick reply.

Why laughing out loud? Whats that funny? Or you meant she smiled widely?

S610 is a little bit below A8xx series in terms of sound quality, roughly on the same level as S710. In other words, you will notice the difference in highs only if you're listening to lossless files - only WAV are supported by the Sonys. If you're not - then it won't be all that obvious considering the mid-fi headphones you're using. If the player is for someone else, like your sister, I'd recommend A8xx series as they come with MUCH better earphones(MDR-EX082) than S6xx series - thats the reason A8xx series are more expensive even though they don't have FM radio. The nice headphones(59$ at Sonystyle.com) add up to the price of the player.

**^ramintop^**

21-05-2008, 01:09

icaka, long story short, she was collecting money to buy a good mp3 player, but she spent it on other stuff, so when she listened to it, she couldn't help but laugh (instead of crying! :p).
i dont have a sister lol, i dont think my cousin can tell the difference between the a810 and s610, although the s610 is one of the best out there in terms of sound quality, so it boils down to her budget, anyway thanks for the help! :)

xkube

21-05-2008, 02:39

**^ramintop^**

21-05-2008, 12:34

xkube, dont activate the 3d enhancement, it totally ruins the sound, and stereo enhance isnt a very good choice if you listen to rock. BBE is a sound enhancement technology, i think it does a good job in enhancing sound quality, but audiophiles prefer to turn it off.

icaka

21-05-2008, 19:01

icaka ye i think its the headphone. im currently using JBL reference 220.
when i tried it with my walkman the bass sound good but its totally diffirent wth my d2. anyway tested both with Senhiesser(sp) HD555, WOW to D2 blew walkman away the bass is somewhat vibrating on my ear. feels good :D

xkube, thats because of the different amplifier topologies of D2 and Sonys. D2 has higher power output for high impedance phones(like HD555 and most circumaural 'phones), but the Sonys have amp that drives low-impedance 'phones much better than D2(D2 sounds tinny with most of them compared to Sonys). I got the Sony mainly for that reason, as its much better suited for canalphones/IEMs, which have very low impedance. Circumaural 'phones are too big for outdoor use for me. They make me look too geeky. :D

I guess you haven't tuned the DAC bass gain through the Test menu. If you do it, you will truly experience what the Sony is capable of. :) (with the JBLs)

ramintop, the price difference between S61x and A81x is around 10-20$ but the "user-satisfaction" factor with A81x is MUCH MUCH better mainly because of the great sound from the EX082, but also because of the much sexier, thinner, metal housing of A81x series. Thats important too - why not have it for 10-20$ more?

**^ramintop^**

21-05-2008, 19:39

icaka, oh its more of a $100-110 difference here, but its not a problem either, but i wanted to know if there is a difference because if you want to buy a different headphone, like a shure for example, there's no point of buying an a810, and if there is a budget problem, is she sacrificing a lot.

icaka

21-05-2008, 22:17

ramintop, are you sure you're looking at the A81x series and not at the new A82x? Also, are you sure you're comparing two players with the same storage capacity? Sony players are available with different capacities and the only difference is the last digit of the model number - A81x.

Btw, the bundled EX082 are better sounding than Shure models in the same price range. But if she can get Denons(C551) and the price difference is really that big(100$ lol) she may consider S61x + Denon C551(around 100$).

**^ramintop^**

22-05-2008, 00:11

icaka, ok im not 100% sure lol, but i remember it was like a 300 L.E. difference, which is about $50/60, anyway, if i could make her go for the a800, it would be much better, the s610 is ugly in my eyes, thanks for the help again! :)

20dB@14Hz

10-07-2008, 20:17

wake up, thread, today's news is
http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/07/zenxfi1.jpg

ZEN X-Fi specs

-built in flash memory of 8, 16 or 32GB depending on version
-a built in speaker
-screen: 16.7 million colors, 320x240 pixels / 2.5"
-SD memory card slot
-a built in FM radio with 32 presets,
-a built in equalizer,
-alarm functions,
-USB 2.0
-new Centrale audio ripping and syncing application.
-the battery life : 36h for music playback and 5h for video
-weight&dimensions: 69g & 83x55x12.8mm (DxWxH).
-Wi-Fi (for texting only, no browser)
-X-Fi sound enhancement technology
-Bundled with EP830 earphones.

More: product page (http://www.creative.com/products/mp3/zenxfi)

I have seen several different US$ prices but they range between $250 and $299 for the 32 GB version, $210 to $250 for the 16GB and $145-$170 for the 8 GB version.

They raised the bar high with this one I think, it may be hard to match.
I just hope other manufacturers will follow and start including proper earphones instead of the stock buds.

chlettn

10-07-2008, 20:36

20dB@14Hz, this is the wrong thread for that...and there is already a thread for the X-fi:

http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=76746

20dB@14Hz

10-07-2008, 21:32

20dB@14Hz, this is the wrong thread for that...and there is already a thread for the X-fi:
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=76746

ooops, apologies:eek:

(at least I woke this thread up)

:jump:

koЯngear

07-09-2008, 07:43

Wake up again guys! Ne news about Cowon D3? I think it will bring another revolution in daps, what do you guys think?

**^ramintop^**

07-09-2008, 12:47

koЯngear, i think s9. ;)

Awesome_Aleks

11-09-2008, 03:26

Zune 120GB & 16GB as well as 3.0 Firmware upgrade announced (bit old)

Zune's look really nice to me, particularly as they have Gapless Playback and WMA Lossless support (it can also sync over a Wireless network with your PC, which I also like), 120GB could be on my shopping list if the V3.0 upgrade adds an Equaliser (which they have been VERY stubborn about, I like my bass...)

The V3.0 upgrade is for all Zune's (very nice Microsoft) and is confirmed to add:

Wi-Fi Music Store
2 games (Hexic and Texas Hold 'Em)
Audible Support
Buy From FM, it tags a song you hear from the radio, and when you get home, downloads the song you wanted
Music Recommendations
Themed Channels, for example a Top 100 Chart for the Music Store

Majority of those I don't care about, I get all my music from DJ Sets, I rarely get seperate tracks so I couldn't care less about Music Stores (also considering it's in America, that doesn't hel me in Australia either)

An Equaliser is all I want, and then it will be perfect